Blogger.com Banned In Turkey Over Creationism
8:49 AM * PERMALINK * 11 comments
Saturday, October 25, 2008
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Comments:
Your using the Lord's name frivolously and without reverence offends me and all sincere Christians. Expecting others to respect your beliefs requires you do the same for them. Thank you for the opportunity to comment and for your entertaining blog.
***** Your using the Lord's name frivolously and without reverence offends me and all sincere Christians. *****
Jesus is a religious figure in both Christianity and Islam. But the name is also a colloquial expression, which, in this case, was funny to use, I thought. My use should be no more offensive than saying "holy cow!" or some other religiously-derived-but-no-longer-religious expression.
Mike
I'm in Turkey. I can't access or update my own blog. I an only access this one via a proxy server.
This is a country that wants to join the EU.
All the neighbours of Turkey have problems with this country.Now you can see a small bit of this problem.
Respecting someone's beliefs doesn't mean adhering to them. It's easier for David to respect Mike's belief that his use of Jesus' name is not a sin than it is for any of us to refrain from offending someone who adheres to the limitless set of beliefs out there. After all, should we all refrain from eating beef because it may offend some Hindu? Or should the Hindu start eating it to avoid offending cattle farmers?
As a religious dude, The anonymous person above me got it right. While I don't use "Jesus" in the way Mike did, it's foolish to think he said it in a way that's insulting, because I respect his right to believe whatever.
Mike, why exactly would replacing holy cow with the name of my Lord and Savior not be offensive? What purpose does it serve to use the name Jesus instead of holy cow?
To anonymous. To respect something is to show regard or consideration. Whether or not it is said to be insulting isn't relevant. It's obviously not showing respect if you are using jesus as a replacement for holy cow.
It's like taking the holy name of our God-- who gave us life, our family, and everything precious to us-- and used it as a filthy, four-letter word.
***** Mike, why exactly would replacing holy cow with the name of my Lord and Savior not be offensive? What purpose does it serve to use the name Jesus instead of holy cow? *****
I'm not "using jesus as a replacement for holy cow."
You're completely missing my point, which is that there are many, many expressions in the English language that have religious origins but have entered into everyday speech. "Holy cow" is offensive to some Hindus, but it's an English expression now and doesn't have anything to do with Hinduism. Likewise, the word "Jesus!" as an exclamation -- or its many variants ("Jesus H. Christ!," "Jesus W. Christ!" and the more recent "Jesus Hussein Christ!" isn't a religious utterance, but a purely secular one, albeit one with religious origins -- you know, like Santa Claus.
Pretty much anything one might say or do offends someone in one or more of the 6,000 religions.
I could walk into your church and start complaining about how I'm offended by this and offended by that, but I don't because it's pointless and rude.
Mike Elgan
Let's take a simpler example. Buddhists are known for their tolerance of other religions, perhaps because Buddhism itself straddles the line between religion and philosophy. Buddhist monks tend to wear very bright colors, usually oranges and reds. On the other end of the fashion scale are the Amish who only wear dark colors. Now the monk can respect the Amish choice in wardrobe without actually wearing it. Similarly Mike can respect your right to belief in certain sacred words without adhering to such a belief.
A lack of respect for this belief is not simply not following it, a lack of respect is trying to get you to break your own codes and trying to get you to take the Lord's name in vain. If "respect" to you means that you should follow the customs of those you respect, then you should respect the Amish and dress as they do. But don't forget to wear your monk robes underneath...
So, David, just exactly what is a sincere Christian, anyway?
Mike: I've clicked the link you provided and the issue seems more twisted than you may have realized.
The Turkish state is an aggressively secular one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Turkey).
So, the state doesn't defend creationists. Quite the opposite.
As far as the ban goes, it was not caused by the fact that "some blogs that question Koranic Creationism exist." It was a result of a court decision on a lawsuit filed by a local creationist who claimed those blogs contained libelous material(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar).
Of course, this doesn't make the decision to ban any less stupid.
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